How about going shill crazy on Le Havre? I certainly would like to know more about that game. :)

Ha. Scott, Dale’s seen the rules but he still hasn’t played it - and even I have only played it by email. (I’m just a flunky)

I’m very happy to answer any questions about how the game works, though. There are a couple of threads about it on BGG already.

"Am I in a special position because of this column and the other reasons listed above?”

I don’t think there’s any argument necessary here, the answer is pretty clear.  I don’t know why money has to change hands in order for one to benefit from his position as a columnist here on the BGN.  You get plenty already.  I don’t know your timeline exactly, but isn’t it true that access to publishers and designers as well as to games themselves become easier in part because of your exposure here?  I bet even past contributors (those that do not actively write for BGN any more) still get to enjoy the occasional privileges they’ve picked up during their stint here.

Anyway, I do find it interesting that while Jeff Allers is also a fellow writer and a designer of an upcoming game, but we don’t see him being part of any of this controversy.  In fact, I don’t recall hearing him talking about his own project very much at all, at least not through his status here.

Wish you guys all the best with the release of Dominion.

Having written about games for various web sites for about five or six years, I can attest that writing for BGN is nice as it has the largest boardgame-centric interest of any of the sites for which I’ve written.  I do get the occasional review copy of a game (and writing for BGN has to help that a little I would assume), but also want to point out that most game review copies are of games getting less exposure.  Thus the “hottest” new games which folks (including myself) tend to talk about the most are the games I’m most likely to have gone out and bought myself.  (Thus, you won’t see me talking about import titles, I don’t have the money to pursue imported games.)

As for the whole issue of the week, if I know where someone stands relationally to a product, I don’t care if they write about it or not (although I do find that those who are closest to a product are often the ones who know the most about it and are thus a good source of information.)

By the way, my secret plan of having nothing to do with producing or developing a game is starting to pay off!  No one can accuse me of schilling a game if I don’t make one!  Whee!

Hey Dale, what’s the difference between a translator and a “translator”?  The immediate difference that springs to mind is I am married to one of them.

I don’t know why money has to change hands in order for one to benefit from his position as a columnist here on the BGN.  You get plenty already.  I don’t know your timeline exactly, but isn’t it true that access to publishers and designers as well as to games themselves become easier in part because of your exposure here?  I bet even past contributors (those that do not actively write for BGN any more) still get to enjoy the occasional privileges they’ve picked up during their stint here.

Jason, if you start writing a column here I think you will be sorely disappointed.  If you find any of those privileges be sure to point some in my direction ;-)

hmm…

It seems that BGN is starting become a PR portal for games companies.

To be honest I’ve stopped reading Dale and Valerie’s columns as I grew tired of the constant talk of ‘Game X - Dominion’ and how brilliant, innovative and life-changing it is. Whilst they are not shilling the game it the true sense of the word it is creating a pre-release hype about the game that seems totally free of any objectivity.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a review/preview written by a playtester or developer of a game where they haven’t said how great it is. I want to read articles by people with a bit of perspective not with a vested interest.

Even Melissa is getting in on the act now, in her PR piece on Le Harve she states that:
“The good news is: Le Havre delivers.”
and then a few lines later she says
“I’ve played around a quarter of a game by email...”
WHAT! I need at least a couple of plays of a game before I can really make up my mind about a game, but a quarter of a game by email? How on earth can I read anything she’s written as anything other than a sales pitch?

If designers/developers/playtesters want to write an article about the processes involved in the birth of their latest game I for one would be interested in reading it. But could they at least have the dignity to wait until the game is on sale and we’ve had a chance to see it for what it really is and not quite the second coming that the hype said it was going to be.

- Garry

I enjoy reading about new developments in gaming and honest reviews/reactions about what is out/coming down the pike - IMO, If you are part of the development of a game, so be it. As long as you are honest with readers, as a gamer first.

Otherwise, as I read the slew of recent articles about Shilling, ...WHY DO PEOPLE REALLY CARE?

With so many factors going into the decision making behind choosing a game to add to the personal library (cost/reviews/box appeal/theme/components/mechanics), can anyone really think that one article (or several) about a game by a writer who may be involved on some level, could fully sway a gamer to purchase something?

Do we not pride ourselves as gamers in being able to make strategic and well thought out decisions in the games we play? Why would that be any different when we choose to get excited about and/or purchase a new title?

And doesn’t a developer, who are gamers themselves, have a right to be excited about something they are close to? and as Dale said...played 200 times - I know I certainly have not played Agricola that many times..I think it would be hard to be excited about a game after that many plays..much less desire to write bout it!

Since I’ve been friends with Dale for a lot longer than he’s been writing for BGN, I can say with certainty that, at least for Dale, you have it backwards, Jason.  He has been a “D-list” celebrity in the gaming community for a long time.  (I’m just sad that the pictures of him riding into a game con on an inflatable penis were lost from the web when Game Wire went away.) I would argue that Dale was asked to write a column for Boardgamenews *beacause* of his connections, not that the column created those connections.

Dale,

I am going to write as a reader.  And I think I’ll borrow Larry Levy’s “loose cannon” mantra for just a moment.

I think there are big difference in the way you present information in your articles versus the way Valerie does.  Your articles sometimes have that “rub it in” feeling to them… as in “I know about this game and you don’t” or “I know about this game but ain’t gonna tell you.” mentality.  Personally, I don’t care about that end result… but I can see how that style may be grating to readers at times.

To the readers:

That being said, I sharply disagree with anyone who says that Dale should not be able to write about his Dominion experiences. I think as writers at BGN, the responsibility is to be better than just a personal blog talking about whatever.  But if Dominion is what interests Dale, then he has every right to talk about it as a columnist.

And Dale is especially right about this point: Rick Thornquist asked all writers at BGN to write simply about things that interested them. Those articles didn’t have to be game related but the goal at was simply to have original content on a daily basis.

Dale is a BGN *columnist*, therefore by definition, he should have much more latitude to write than someone who is a *reporter*, per say.  However, BGN has become a news standard of sorts for the many in the boardgaming community.  It is regarded by many has THE bonafide news website about boardgames.

As such, it has gained a certain amount of prestige where the substance of what BGN stands for now somewhat overrides even Rick Thornquist’s original vision for it.  In the end, it is the readers that define what BGN is.

Because of this, the BGN columnists have the additional responsibility, in my opinion, to behave as more responsible journalistic members (they do get press passes after all!) and make sure that they disclose properly, anything that could compromise the BGN integrity as a whole.  Because of what BGN has become, the writers have to treat this much more carefully than a personal blog where anything goes.  There is always a larger responsibility to the whole.

That being said, I think Dale has discharged this duty properly. 

I think it becomes very narrow for the readers to start questioning what the writers at BGN should write about.  As long as proper disclosure has taken place, the writers should be free to write about *any* topic which interests them ... including games they have worked on… or are even being paid to work on. 

However, the readers time is valuable too, and they deservedly expect proper disclosure.

Don’t worry Dale, I’ll still play games with you at Buckeye Game Fest, regardless of what your friends say. It hasn’t stopped me before.

Um, you did send the check, right?:-)

Hey Dale,

I look forward to your column each week (as well as the other regular columnist’s columns too).

Don’t worry too much about what I assume is a vocal minority.  Keep up the good work.

- Some random game enthusiast.

"I would argue that Dale was asked to write a column for Boardgamenews *beacause* of his connections, not that the column created those connections.”

Thank you for clarifying that Valerie, and it is precisely the reason why I stated that I don’t know about Dale’s “timeline” (as in his involvement with the industry in relation to him being a columnist here).  Regardless though, I don’t think you can totally refute the possibility that writing for BGN didn’t open more doors and provide more opportunities.

“If you find any of those privileges be sure to point some in my direction ;-)”

Well Fraser, maybe location is the big hurdle in your case?  But even podcasters like Tom Vasel have access to things normal board gamers don’t get to enjoy, and he’s also on the other side of the world.  I think you just need to do a bit more self-promotion :P

Oh, I guess I never made it clear in my responses, but personally I don’t think Valerie or Dale have spoken “too much” about Dominion.  If I don’t want to read more about it, I simply won’t open the column/article, it’s easy as that.  I only replied because I don’t necessarily agree with their responses thus far to these accusations.  Anyway, as I’ve said before, wish you guys nothing but the best, and keep up the good work.

I think the columnists are well aware of their click-through rate for each article they write. If people were really sick hearing about Dominion, the columnists would see readership drop before anyone else, and I’m sure they’d adjust accordingly.

There definitely is appearing some pre-order fatigue in the community since Agricola’s release. That game was demoed at bgg.con last October 2007 and it took until September 2008 to actually get it to the US. The sentiment I keep hearing is, “Great, I just waited almost a year for Agricola, I don’t want to hear about any another game I won’t even see for another friggin year.”

Based on the 8 trillion pages of comments on Valerie’s article, the two of you must be doing SOMETHING right!  Why else would people bother to keep chiming in, if they can’t stand your work?  Each of you states, upfront, that you are involved in the design of the game.  That should be enough for people to filter your comments accordingly, and make their own judgements about their veracity.  Too many people apparently don’t want to use their brain while reading or listening to a news source, how else does Fix News/Fox Noise stay on the air?  Not a day goes by that my jaw doesn’t drop at the things they try to get away with, but that’s cause I was taught early on “don’t believe everything you read or hear.” Seems like a lot of hullabaloo about nothing.

As someone who played a prototype version of the game at Origins, I thought the game had some promise, but the stripped down version we played with would not lead me to say it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread either.  I’m interested in seeing the final product, and as usual, I get to try most of that stuff at BGG.con before I buy anyways.  Sometimes I read reviews from like minded gamers, and buy accordingly, but people should make sure that their opinions match across a broad spectrum, not just a handful of games, or you may end up with something you hate.  Of the contributors here, I generally have the same taste in games as Ted Alspach, except for cardgames.  So if he recommends a train-related game or abstract on BGG, chances are I’ll buy it on release.  Valerie and Dale probably have that affect on some gamers as well, but their work on Dominion is unlikely to affect the gamers who share their gaming interests in a negative fashion, they probably would buy sight unseen anyways.

I have tried to resist this thread or the comments in response to Valerie’s column, but I can’t stand it any longer.

I will start by stating that I have no problems with Valerie, Dale or Melissa. Their columns have allowed us to have insight into upcoming titles that we would not have had this early, and from perspectives that we wouldn’t normally see. The profiles typically are from the designer and/or publisher, and it’s interesting (to me, at least) to see what developers and/or translators do to help get games to us.

While the word “shill” may have two definitions, I think that most people only think of one - the person who hides their affiliation with the product/company/organization that they are boosting. Valerie, Dale and Melissa have been very open about their affiliations with their respective products and companies. Is there anyone out there who is *not* thinking of this definition? Yeah, I thought not…

The issue I have is with the mean-spirited and ill-informed comments I have been seeing here. The acrimony on BGG nearly drove me away from that site - now days, I tend to read a lot less than I used to. I would hate to think that this would also happen here. Even when there is a difference of opinions, I think that we can post in a civil and well-reasoned tone.

Dale: I hope that we will see this list of disclaimers at the top of every one of your columns from now on.  I’ll find it useful, I’m sure.

Eric: If I wasn’t already a member, I’d become one to show support for the site and its columnists.  Keep it up, folks, I think you’re all doing a great job as-is.

If disclaimers explaining paid relationships are at the top of the column, I don’t see how it is a problem.  And I really doubt that much money is changing hands, given the nature of the industry.

REALLY LATE to this issue -

After reading a few reviews and articles, I think most people get a good idea of tastes as well as how “kind” a journalist is in their reviewing. Heck, I can tell Dale goes more serious in his tastes just by his current three favorites.

Dale always tells when he is attached to a project in some way, so I have no worries about that sort of thing. He is allowed to write about what he wants, so he does… if he focuses a bit much on a game to some perspectives, it probably means he is enjoying the game a bit and playing it a bunch. For those of like minds, sometimes this is a great thing.... I still have a copy of his Agricola write-up so I can revisit it when I get my copy.

I think there are enough journalists to get a variety of opinions… especially with the recent addition. There are other sites as well to cover other things.

I personally wouldn’t mind seeing more reviews of games for younger people - I have nephews roughly the same age as Dale’s boys. Then again, I wouldn’t mind seeing greater variety in American games for kids period.

Thanks for the good work Dale.

And my nephews are without power still due to Ike here in Springfield, Ohio as well and will likely continue to be without power… they had an individual line to the house go down and that will be low on the precedence chain for a while it seems.

No matter how you try to justify it, at a minimum what you (and Valerie and Melissa, etc.) are doing is a conflict of interest.  You’re a columnist, and you’re pushing a game you’re involved in developing, so what you’re doing equates to advertising for free.  I expect better of BGN.  If this type of “reporting” continues, I know I won’t be contributing next year.

Again, as long as you say “I’m getting paid to make this game, now let me tell you why it is great” at the front, then that’s fine.  On the other hand, the site will start feeling like it is packed with press releases.  On the third hand, I really like Dominion and sought it out at a con because of Valerie’s writing.  And I’m glad I did.

Very well put.