"5. Mare Nostrum

This game is not good for 6 because someone will end up in the middle (I think it’s Greece) and has to fend off attackers from all sides while the other players only deal with players on a few sides.  I’d really rather not start playing a game where the possibilities of success are so imbalanced.”

Mare Nostrum in and of itself only supports five players, so you’re obviously talking about the Mythology Expansion.  Greece’s position in the expanded game is much better than in the base game, for two reasons.  One, Rome...the empire that gets cheap infantry, which is better than the strong infantry that Carthage gets...has a western front to worry about, so the Roman player has more to do than keep invading eastward.  Two, the Greek centaurs are by far the best mythological unit in the game, killing one legion before battle even starts, and then “rolling” an automatic 6 like the other myth units.  Two legions have a mere 34% chance of killing a centaur, and they’ll both die in the process whether or not they’re successful.  I’ve played quite a bit of six player Mare Nostrum with people who aren’t afraid to be aggressive, and it is well understood that Greece is not to be taken lightly.

Also, Mare Nostrum with precisely one unmanned empire is a really bad idea.  In a game with no Babylon, for example, Egypt and Greece can expand eastwards with ridiculous ease while Rome and Carthage get no such benefit.  It’s an enormous advantage that causes a bigger balance problem than the Greek location issue ever did.

No offense intended, Dale.  I often spring to Mare Nostrum’s defense on BGG, so I feel compelled to do it here, too.

For Union Pacific, do you play where people are still allowed to select a new stock to take before trading one in for a share of UP?  I can’t decide which version is better and more strategic.

Lately, we have been enjoying Age of Empires III with six as well.

An older title that plays well with six (to 8 for that matter) is Turfmaster.

Eric, my error on Mare Nostrum.  When I played it last, I must have played with the expansion and not known it…

So - it really should fit on my Avoid with 5 Players list! :) No need to apologize for your defense of the game - I’m glad that you like it.  It’s just not one for me.

Jason - the way our group plays UP, the active player still chooses a stock from the board like usual… And then trades one stock card (face down) from his hand for the one share of UP.  I’ll be honest with you, it’s been so long since I’ve read the rules, I don’t even know if this is the “official” way to do it or not.  One of the most frustrating things about UP to me is that each time that I play it, there is usually a 5 minutes discussion that arises as all the players have to come to some agreement as to which set of rules they are going to play by. 

Dale

My family and I played Antike with six on New Years Eve. Everyone loved it.

Tim, Antike was another game that almost made the avoid list for me… Actually, it probably should take the place of Mare Nostrum!

I don’t like Antike with 6 as, again, someone gets stuck in the middle and IMHO they’re pretty much screwed from the start.  Also, in the few games I’ve played with 6, the VP cards become fairly static near the end - and in my games, the only way to win was for someone to make a huge attack to get a final VP point.  Of course, if they failed to do this, they would be so weak that they would be very vulnerable to being wiped out themselves.  Thus, everyone massed as much forces as they could and not much happened.

Dale

One of the things that I like about Antike is that you can approach it in many different ways. There was a minimal amount of fighting in our game and the winner surprised everyone by pulling off an amazing combination of moves/attacks that allowed him to distribute his fleet from 5 seas to 14 seas in one turn and take 2 VPs.

In the several games I’ve played, the winner has never won by attacking for the final VP. In fact, I’m pretty sure that none of the winners got *any* points from destroying a temple.

As far as the problem of getting stuck in the middle, I also think that depends on how you approach it. Middle players often have more room for uncontested expansion at the very beginning of the game when there is a lot of neutral territory up for grabs. If the middle players can diplomatically avoid conflicts, they’ve pulled out wins in my experience.

Perhaps your group sees Antike more like a war game. If that’s the case, then yes you should avoid it. If you see Antike as an “engine” game, it’s much more enjoyable imho.

Tim, all good points about Antike… And it’s very likely that my group has developed its own group-think about how to play the game.

Unfortunately, once one player in Antike sees it as a wargame, the game IMHO escalates into a wargame for all players. 

But that’s what is so great about boardgaming in the past few years!  There are so many good choices out there that we all have many more games to discover and play.

D

SEX (by David Parlett) needs ‘exactly six’.  Takes a lot of beating.

- Derek

Derek, I’m familiar with the Parlett game…

“SEX (by David Parlett) needs ‘exactly six’.  Takes a lot of beating.”

However, I must admit it’s taking most of my self-restraint not to add an off-color pun in reply to your comment! :)

Dale

We don’t do nearly as much 6-player gaming as we used to, as we’re now much more likely to split up into two groups of 3.  But it still happens from time to time and there are games I think are great and awful with six.  Interestingly, Dale has covered most of these, but I think I’d rearrange things differently!

First, one game we really like with six that wasn’t mentioned is Pizarro & Co. (aka Magellan).  This is a nice fast-playing auction game with plenty of variety and lots of tough decisions.  It plays very well with six.

Of the others, I’d absolutely include I’m the Boss, Showmanager, Medici, and Medieval Merchant in my list of essential six-player games.  ItB is one of the first second-tier games (what you play after you get tired of Ticket to Ride) that I suggest.  Interestingly, I’ve seen far more hard feelings with this one than in Diplomacy, but it’s still a great game for many kinds of groups.  Showmanager is a great middleweight.  Medici gets played less than it used to, but the old warhorse still holds up.  And MM never gets pulled out enough, but it’s always enjoyed when it does.

In the “avoid” category, I start with Union Pacific.  This used to be our six-player staple, but the lack of control really brings down the quality of this.  The five-player game is SO much better and I like it even more with four.  If at all possible, I’ll abstain from 6P UP.

Elfenland is also verboten with six.  The downtime and duration is just too long.  This rarely makes an appearance any more, but I can’t see trying it with more than four.

Metro--same problem:  too much chaos, too little control.  Unfortunately, I’ve never played this game with fewer than six, so I have no idea if I’d like it, but I absolutely avoid it with six.

Alhambra:  terrible with six.  The downtime is horrendous.  I don’t care for Stimmt So much at all, but at one point, at least it seemed to “work” with six.  But the last time we played, it took well over 90 minutes with that number, which was pretty awful.  Rather than deal with this family of games, just grab Showmanager instead.

Acquire--Dale is absolutely right; this just doesn’t work with six.

As for Dune and Mare Nostrum, my experience is limited, but I’d lean toward the “it works” camp.  My old gaming group really loved Dune when it first came out, although I don’t think we ever got to play it with six.  I did sit in a 6er a few years ago and came to the conclusion that the game hadn’t aged well, an opinion the rest of the table hotly disagreed with.  But it does seem to work best with six and the theme shines through as well as ever.  If you can live with what I view as old fashioned mechanics, it would be a great game to play with six.

I’ve also only played the Mare Nostrum expansion with six once, but we had a great time.  I’d love to play this game more, but the opportunity rarely arises.

Finally, I keep hearing good things about die Palastgeflüster.  I’m definitely going to have to try to round up a copy of this and see for myself.

Nice article!  One of these days I’m going to have to break out Medieval Merchant…

I looked up Palastgeflüster, and it’s actually listed as 3-5 players.  Do you alter the rules to play with 6, or just play as written?

I know it’s cheating, but the 2-deck variants of San Juan or Hey that’s my Fish work really well.  Pitchcar does, too, and I can’t wait to try Imperial with 6!

Hey, good column. Six is our number for my weekly group, so this topic is of interest. I agree that UP works just fine for six. I wouldn’t want to play our partnership variant for 6 exclusively, but I like it for some variety. One thing to point out is the six of us have played at least 100 games of UP against each other, so there may be less “control loss” with players who know each other well. Also, there is control, but you do best by playing like a partnership and not two individuals. If you can get into a groove where one partner is collecting stock and the other is building those trains, it can be sweet.

We play Acquire a lot with six as well. Two rule changes help Acquire with five and six. We pay thirds (pays half of second) and we allow players to buy OR SELL up to 3 shares per turn. Sell-backs rarely get used, but keep players out of the “I’m broke and can’t do anything for several rounds” problem.

Elfenland is best with 5 or six, fewer players and you don’t get as many paths. For Elfenland, we deal eight cards each round, not up to eight. Players may save up to 4 cards. We also cut the game to 3 rounds. Both of these improve the game. Getting 8 more cards makes card management more important and cutting it to 3 rounds keeps the game at 90 minutes instead of 2 hours.

I agree that Power Grid works well for six, also Medici. I’ve been taking that to the Loop for the Atlanta Boardgame Meetup sessions and newer/casual players take to the game pretty well.

I don’t like Metro for six. It is best with 2 and 3, playable with 4. At six it is more an activity than a game.

Circus Flocati stretches well to six. Gemblo works well for six, better than for 5, in fact.

Downtown is an older game that doesn’t get much attention, but works well for six.

Robo Rally works very well with six, or seven or eight, for that matter.

I’m sure there are a couple of others that I’ve played a bunch and am not thinking of right now.

I agree about the UP rules problems and I think it would come out a lot more if the rules were more settled.

Which board is best for Power Grid for 6 players?

Like Peter says, Palastgeflüster is not for 6 players.

Sigh… I just realized that Palastgefluster ended up on the wrong list.... You’ll see it again next week!

Dale,

I think you are running an enjoyable and thought provoking series here.  My comments:

1.  I’m the Boss:  This is my personal favorite… and one of the best boardgames out there and it embodies EVERYTHING a boardgame should be. And I think everyone now knows what I think a boardgame should be… so I won’t belabor that point.

2. Acquire:  You are right, this game is best at four or five.  Not so much so with six… but still a good amount of fun.  Downtime is mitigated because it does take some advance planning to get a general direction of where you want to go next and since everything is so fluid, you have to be paying attention with this one.

3. Scotland Yard:  Absolutely a great game with six.  The great joy of this game is getting order out of the chaos when the five detectives do whatever without agreeing on direction.  It requires great social skills to get everyone on the same page… especially if Type A personalities!  One of the ultimate social games with six people.

Speaking of which, I have a rule… if you can’t get five or six people in, the fun of boardgames always seems to be greatly diminished for the most part.  I rarely play with just 3 or 4… and it is usually going to card games if we get to that point!  There are a few games that are good at 4 people I guess.  But more than 5 is where it is at for me.

4. Power Grid:  Eh, just seems too Euro for my tastes.

Ryan B.

Two vastly different games that I think are best with six players:  Die Kutschfahrt Zur Teufelsburg (Coach Ride to Devil’s Castle) and Advanced Civilization.

What about 1830?
Playing it with 6 is hardcore, as no player has enough funds at the start of the game to get a company running: 6 shares cost a minimum of 402, while you start with 400.
So it adds a little more cutthroat than usual to this gem.