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Jennifer Schlickbernd: Ask Ms. Meeples – Playing with Mr. No

Folks, I need your help as I’m completely and totally out of questions! Please send me questions!! As you can see from previous columns, in no way do I divulge who you are or even where you are unless you include that information in your own signature as part of your question. And if you know me, still send in questions – just use an anonymous email from Gmail or Hotmail if you are more comfortable with that. I’ll continue to do tips even without questions, but the questions are way more interesting!

On to this week’s question!

We have one member of our game group who simply refuses to play many games that the rest of the group likes. The others in the group are willing to compromise and play games they don’t absolutely love if the rest of the group wants to play them, but this one fellow flat-out refuses to play many games. This is very frustrating for the rest of us, but we’ve been gaming together for a very long time and don’t want him to leave the group – we would just like him to agree to play a wider variety of games.

How can we approach this without making him mad or defensive? It’s to the point where when he doesn’t show up, everyone goes, “Oh good! Now we can play x, y, and z!”

The obvious answer is to stop inviting him because the rest of the group doesn’t seem to want him to be there anyway. But if you really want to try to save the situation, find out what kinds of games he doesn’t like, then see whether you can discover why he doesn’t like them. If he can express it, then see whether there’s a way to mitigate his issue. For example, I don’t like most party games because they depend on knowledge of pop culture, but I’m willing to play a party game like Pow Wow that doesn’t.

You might adopt a token system in which whenever he plays a game he doesn’t want to play, he gets a token to use to play the game he does want to play. You might require him to turn in two tokens to be able to play the game he wants to play. This solution seems more appropriate for a pre-teen child, but it could work with someone who insists on only playing games he wants to play.

If he simply doesn’t want to play other games because he wants to control what games are played, then that’s a problem. You have to explain to him that the gaming sessions are for everyone, and everyone is expected to participate as well as they are able. No one should have to continually play games they dislike, but everyone is expected to sometimes play a game that is not their favorite. Tell him that if this is a problem for him, then the group will need to move on without him. I would not let a control-freak ruin my gaming sessions.

I hope this advice works for you – it’s always difficult to lose a player you’ve played with for a long time, but you don’t want to lose the rest of the group over one person.

Let’s Talk about Table Talk

Instead of a “Tip of the Week,” I’m going to discuss table talk while board gaming. This assumes that everyone is familiar with the game being played, and that there’s no need to explain rules or other information about the game.

Back in the day, there was always table talk with multiplayer strategy games like Civilization, 1830, and Age of Renaissance. However, since Eurogames have become so popular, table talk is becoming frowned upon because people feel too much talking slows the game down or isn’t fair because everyone should play their own game – or because it’s just plain irritating.  Table talk when it’s not wanted turns what can be fun into frustration. On the other hand, helplessly watching while one person exploits another player’s action, or when one person runs away with a game because the other players are too intimidated to say anything against the strategy being played is no fun either.

From a social point of view, one way to deal with this is to have some sort of agreement before starting to play. This suggestion doesn’t really work, however, unless all the players are familiar with each other and their playing styles. If I’ve played Power Grid ten times with my friends and we always discussed moves at the table, coming to another group where such moves can’t be discussed puts me at a disadvantage. Conversely, if I’m used to using a particular strategy in Stone Age that has been very successful because the other players can’t band against it, I’m going to be upset if everyone points out what I’m doing and they all try to stop it.

Personally, I’m in favor of table talk because if a player can win only because of others’ lack of skill/knowledge, it’s not much of a win to me. Board gaming to me should be an interactive experience, something where everyone can learn and get better. An effective, efficient way to do this is to discuss strategies as they are happening and what can be done about them. Yes, this does make a game leader’s position more difficult because she is now competing with the aggregate of players at the table instead of each player individually. Is that really a bad thing though? I guess if as a result of the table talk, someone who was way behind then goes on to win that would not feel fair.  Most of the time what actually happens is that people will grow closer in scoring in the game, meaning that it’s a fight/race to the finish. This seems much more exciting and fun to me than watching someone get ahead early and stay ahead all game.

Please leave comments on either part of this column today. I may discuss table talk more in the next column, particularly if the comments lead to additional inspiration.

© 2009 Jennifer Schlickbernd


Posted by Jennifer Schlickbernd on Nov 5, 2009 at 01:00 AM in ColumnistsJennifer Schlickbernd / 820

Comments:

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Wow, I cannot possibly imagine playing a game where someone criticised me for talking about strategies or outcomes openly.

Boardgames are a social activity, I think I would step up and walk away from any game where someone admonished me for speaking!

Yes, sure, I’ll try and get away with cunning strategies and hope people haven’t seen them, if someone does and points it out to the table, that’s my fault for not being subtle enough.  I cannot, however, get annoyed with that player for pointing it out.  He has as much right to try and win as I do, and if that means sabotaging the position of a leader then that is all part and parcel of the experience

Posted by Destrin on Nov 5, 2009 at 04:56 AM | #

As to how to deal with people who only want to play certain types/genres of games, if you host such a group as a private gaming group, you can create and enforce your own prime directive that players who participate in your private gaming group should be flexibly open to playing a wide variety of modern strategy games.

If yours is a public gaming group or club organized by a group of people, you can vote to create and enforce your own mission statement that players who participate in your public gaming group should be flexibly open to playing a wide variety of modern strategy games.

I think Ms. Meeples’ token idea would work best in the public gaming group but with dual application: as both a voting token for use when deciding which games to play AND as a credit token which can be saved to cash in to play the game of one’s choice.

I would suspect that the system would take 4 to 6 gaming session before enough game-token points could be accrued for the system to go into effect. For a group of six players, I would suggest 5 tokens as the cost for Individual’s Game Choice.

When the group votes on games to play, each person would bid a token in voting for a game title. However, only the players who cast the majority of game-token votes would pay a token. (Those who cast a game-token vote for a game that wasn’t chosen by the majority would be given back their game-token bid.) Naturally, this would mean at times that certain players may choose not to bid at all but instead save their accumulating game tokens so that they can eventually cash in their five tokens to play a game of their choice.

At the same time, in order to earn game tokens, they would naturally be more motivated to go along with playing other games.

As to table talk, whenever and wherever appropriate, I would discourage people from engaging in game-spoiling tactics, such as people thinking out loud their speculations (unless it qualifies in proper context as bluffing). I would also remind players whenever and wherever appropriate that each player is playing for him-/herself and that any discussion should not only be social but also true to the spirit and intent of the game.

Posted by James King on Nov 5, 2009 at 05:32 AM | #

We have a pretty simple method for choosing the next game: one quick round of Pass The Pigs.  The winner of the previous game starts, and gets one series (one set of rolls) to get as large a score as possible.  Pigs pass around the table until everyone has had one shot.  Whoever gets the highest score in a single series gets to choose the next game.

If a game is chosen that someone really doesn’t want to play, they are welcome to sit out and see what comes out next, but most people respect.... THE LAW OF THE PIGS!  :)

Posted by oberjt on Nov 5, 2009 at 07:06 AM | #

If someone is not winning the game because they are chatting on their phone, or something like that, and just before I win, someone tells them exactly what they should do keep me from winning, which in turn might help that person (the friend, not the idiot) win, I don’t think my win should be taken away because group-think stopped me.
Each player should be able to play their own game. Weaknesses in play is what one would look for when playing a game. If it is a learning game, that is one thing, but if it is a game everyone knows the rules in and out, it should be individual thinking, and not group-think.
I have a player who does this when he is losing. He tells the friend to do this and that and then this, to stop me from winning. The friend for most of the game was in last place, and because of this group-think situation, might take the win, in a very hollow victory imo. But, if it is the player’s tactics to play dumb for most of the game, and then sweep up, more power to them; that is a weakness for some - to underestimate others bad playing for bad playing instead of tactical maneuvers.

Posted by Scott Nelson on Nov 5, 2009 at 02:54 PM | #

On the table talk issue, the folks I play with most generally talk a fair amount at the table. Most of the time we are kibbitzing about strategies, and I think on the whole that adds to the fun. As you point out, it does tend to make things closer, which makes for some deliciously tense games.

Occasionally, though, the talk will drift from general kibbitzing into manipulation. I’m not sure where the line is, but it is not much fun to play in a game where one or two players are trying to pressure other players into doing things that will hurt one player and benefit themselves. We almost lost a player once because he was consistently a strong player and some of the others at the table would start saying “Get X!” before the game had really even had time to develop. It’s one thing to take on the table when you’re the leader; it’s quite another to have to always take on the table just because you generally play well. I don’t blame him for being sour, and even though I wasn’t the target it definitely diminished my enjoyment too. Luckily we got past that, but things were ugly for a while.

I’d be interested in Ms. Meeples’ take on table talk that has that mean-spirited flavor. Are there types of table talk that aren’t fair?

Posted by David Lund on Nov 9, 2009 at 05:47 PM | #

I’d let the nay-sayer sit out until the group decided upon a game that he did want to play.  This can certainly be awkward, but I suspect that he’d either stop sitting out and play or start bringing a book.

Table talk is an interesting topic.  I don’t mind table talk, but not if it gets too specific.  (And I know the line when I see it.)
“Player X seems to be going for goal Y” is acceptable to me.  “If you move there and I move here and Player C moves there, we can stop him.” is too specific.  As an example, use Thurn and Taxis (taking specific cards as the moves). 

“If you take craftsman, Player X will ship sugar” seems ok.  Saying if you take trader, I’ll craft for you” is not.

Posted by Scott Russell on Nov 11, 2009 at 05:21 PM | #

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