Valerie,

I agree wholeheartedly.  I also balk when asked to play the ‘beginner’ or teaching game, but it really is a good test of the game and designer.  All three examples you give are of complex games with good introductory versions that whet your appetite while staying true to the general nature of the game.

Unfortunately, in the past there have been games that have also been hurt by this approach.  Wikinger is a game that has never gotten the recognition it deserves because too many gamers tried the basic version, didn’t see how the advanced would change that much and never gave it a fair shake.

For the publisher and game designer creating an intro version of games is one of the most difficult and consequential decisions they make, from my point of view.  However, when done right it really does help ease players, of any level, into the game.  (Galaxy Trucker is another rulebook where I’d encourage all new players to play through it as written).

Because of all that, I feel that games which do include effective introductory rules deserve a credit of recognition and notch up the rating scale.

Chalk me up as another gamer who would never play with the beginner rules unless other people at the table absolutely insisted on it.

I can understand where you’re coming from as the teacher, but as the person learning the game, I feel like I am being short-changed if I have to play the beginner’s version of the game. This is especially true if I’m playing a complex game with my regular game group for the first time, and I’m planning on playing the game again. I would rather just get the teaching over with the first time, and allow people to see the entire game unfold so the second playing will be based on a true, full experience of the game and not just on a limited version.

I think most people who play TGOO have built up a mental catalogue of mechanics by now anyway, and it isn’t a huge leap to throw a few more systems into the mix when they learn a game. Thus, I never have bothered with the family rules for games like Leonardo da Vinci, Imperial, Through the Ages, and yes, Agricola. And yes, I balked or would have balked at the idea of not playing the “advanced” versions of any of those games. Yes, it adds time to the play experience, but as the person learning, I’m probably not going to notice that.

I might also add that people who make snap judgments on games are the exact folks who I would NOT want to give the family game treatment to, as those variants often gut some complex decisions out of the game, which are a major plus for many of us!

Valerie:

I’m so glad you brought this up. Through a number of circumstances, I haven’t yet played Agricola but some of the people I’m likely to play it with have played it several times.
I’ve been dreading asking them, especially the two who’d most likely be teaching, to take a step back and play the beginner’s game.
You’ve just made that a whole lot easier.
(Now, if they’ll just read this...... ;-)

You make a good point, Michael.  It definitely depends on the game.

I know I’m not going to teach people Agricola with the cards. I sure would like to get to the cards after using so much time to paste them up (not to mention translating the paste-ups in Finnish), but not with newbies.

It sure helps that the family game is by itself a very, very good game. Simplified Caylus… no need for that, I think, and I’d definitely start everyone with full rules of Caylus Magna Carta, for example, but Agricola has just too many moving parts without the cards. With the cards, there are simply too many options for most people.

We have been trained as gamers to start directly with the “advanced” rules to games, because most publishers over the years have included basic games as watered down versions for more casual players.  So you need additional information to start slow.  Here’s where the user groups and the Geek can be so valuable, as the early adopters can let you know when such an approach makes sense.

For Agricola, it didn’t help that the basic version was called the “Family Game"--normally, that would be the kiss of death.  But a few gamers, including Mik Svellov, had stated that the Family Game was well worth playing.  The real reason for doing so, of course, was that the cards hadn’t been translated yet.  Still, it turned out to be good advice and I would recommend that anyone playing this for the first time start out this way.

With Through the Ages, the player who taught it felt that it was best to start with the Simple Game (another kiss of death term, normally), then move immediately to the Advanced Game.  For later newbies, we’ve started with the Advanced Game.  The Simple Game just isn’t very good and if the other players are experienced, the Advanced Game both provides an excellent game and is a suitable teaching experience.

The real question with us tends to revolve around the willingness of the experienced people to play a watered down version of the game when newbies are introduced.  When you game only once every two weeks, play time is precious, particularly with a stack of untried games taunting you.  If the newbie is willing, sometimes we’ll use the most advanced rules even though a scaled back version may be better for teaching.  In these situations, we try to be generous with advice to make up for it.

By the way, that’s the first I’ve heard of the Caylus beginner variant.  And I think YOU may have taught me the game, Valerie!  Guess you thought I was ready for prime time!

I’ve taught Agricola to almost 20 people, and while I do stick to the E deck as an introductory game, I’ve still stayed at about the 30 minute per person mark. I’ve seen a couple of games go 3 hours with 5 players, but with 1 or more experienced people playing, the inexperienced can get the help they need during the downtime, minimizing the time to take their turn.

I think that others have stated it best, that often using an introductory version of the game isn’t always best, as it detracts from the full experience, and often removes things that a focal points for excitement or tension in the game.

One example I’ll use is Antiquity. We finally got it to the table a couple of weeks ago and used the “beginner” rules, which exclude the pollution from cities or the famine track; Huge Mistake! While the game is great without them, the real meat comes from graves screwing up your city building and the pollution mucking up your lands....or perhaps your opponents lands if they are within your reach.

Another game that a beginner approach is awful for is Galaxy Trucker. I was VERY underwhelmed by the game as a basic 1 round version. After having played the full version a couple of times, I can say the game is very fun, and is now requested.

The final game I’d cite is Space Dealer. Excluding cards like the space port or the robotics factory makes the game way to cookie cutter, not to mention the basic game excludes trading cards, extra planets to earn vps at, as well at the ability to “attack” your opponents.

I think it’s time well spent to have a longer first game, than to make it a more moderate length to introduce people without the full experience.

Thinking like this falls into the same category as “gateway games”. Someone said it best way back when I wanted to get peoples’ thoughts on the best games to use for beginners; I was told to teach them whatever games I liked best, because with a good explanation and the enthusiasm I hold for the game would be better than just choosing something easier.

Tom Vassel also made a good point some time ago; Never assume a game is too complicated or too light for a player. You never know what they will like, or what they will think. So it’s just best to break out a game and go for it.

I don’t know about Antiquity, Dave.  Frank Branham taught me the game and we played with pollution and it was a total disaster.  I was drowning in graveyards and had a very frustrating game.  I’ve yet to play it again.  Frank admitted after the game that he made a mistake by not omitting the pollution rules.  So it all comes down to the individual design.  After all, there’s plenty of game in Antiquity even without those rules.  You can be sure if I play it again, I’ll use the beginner rules.

I suspect the key is knowing your audience, which can be tricky when teaching a game at a con to strangers or at a booth at Essen or somewhere.  Certainly when I bring a new game to the Terminal City Gamers, I don’t even bother with newbie variants because I know the folks there can handle it - but this might not be my assumption at ChiTAG, for example.

I agree that ‘beginner’ variants aren’t as engaging/interesting as the full game since some of the key conflicts / pressures are missing, but sometimes I wonder if they’re not as well playtested too.  Key example is Container, whose beginner variant completely eliminates a key pressure in the game: money management and avoiding the debt death spiral.  End result: looooong game.  Of course, Container needs to be taught such that players are fully aware of the dangers of debt, so as to avoid the game imploding on itself (but that’s a whole ‘nother issue).

pk

I guess what makes the Agricola “family” game different is that it is a fantastic game and doesn’t feel like something is missing.  If the cards never existed I would still love Agricola.  I like that the cards exist.  They will offer a great deal of variety over the years.  But I wish they had come at least a few months later as an expansion.

Patrick’s point of ensuring players know the value of their decisions is key. I think it’s up to experienced players to ensure that those new to the game realize the “important” things as often as you can remind them.

A first play is always a learning game anyway.

While I’m not so sure I would have wanted the cards to be an expansion, I agree you could play with or without the cards and get an equally fantastic game.

I would not and did not mind, Valerie!  Thank you for teaching us, and letting us play twice with you.  I do hope your throat is feeling better!!

Wow, a beginner Caylus variant!  I might have to try that out some time.  On the other hand, I’ve seen non-gaming spouses pick up Caylus and do just fine with the full game.

I lean towards the jump-right-in and play the full game (starting over if necessary) camp due to a) limited game time, b) belief in players’ ability to learn, and c) presupposition that games minus some rules may not be as balanced.

I rarely come across the situation you describe, where some players have serious AP problems in their first time playing a game.  I concede that may be an appropriate situation for trying a reduced rules set.  However, don’t these same people have AP even if it isn’t their first time through the game?